Date: 12-09-90 (11:20) Number: 2163 of 2495 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: B.RODRIGUEZ2 [BRAD] Read: (N/A) Subj: FINDING A FORTH FOR THE 8 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) For everything you ask, you might consider MPE-Forth by MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd. "Umbilical Forth" for the 8051 is about $1500 U.S., depending on the current exchange rate. You'll also need an EPROM emulator; the one they support is around $850 U.S., or you can write your own drivers for another. MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd., 133 Hill Lane, Shirley, Southampton, U.K., SO1 5AF, telephone 011-44-703-631-441. U.S. dealer is Boris Nashanchik, Amics Enterprises, 2604 Elmwood Ave., Suite 108, Rochester NY 14618, (716) 461-9187. I believe LMI supports the 8051 target, but not interactively. If you're really strapped, your final resort is to buy William Payne's "Embedded Controller Forth" from Academic Press, $60 or so, which includes listings for an 8051 Forth and a metacompiler. You'll have to type them in; no one has found them in machine readable form yet. Not interactive, and I don't know if it will run using only the internal RAM. To my knowledge, there are no public domain (FIG, 79, 83, eForth, etc.) 8051 Forths yet. If you'd like to write one, I'd be happy to send you source and documentation -- such as it is -- for the interactive metacompiler I presented at last year's Rochester conf. It needs a bit of work. - Brad * Origin: GEnie and the Forth Interest Group NET/Mail : The GrapeVine BBS 2.4 gigs (501) 753-8121 Dual Standard Date: 01-09-91 (06:10) Number: 2532 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY SMITH Read: (N/A) Subj: FINDING A FORTH FOR THE 8 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) PORTED FROM UseNet => ------ Article 1879 (5 more) in comp.lang.forth: From: dcp@world.std.com (David C. Petty) Subject: Re: Finding a Forth for the 8051/8031 Message-ID: <1991Jan7.035004.9176@world.std.com> Date: 7 Jan 91 03:50:04 GMT References: <2184.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> Reply-To: dcp@world (David C. Petty) Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die In article <2184.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us>, BOB SCHEMMEL writes: `` ... I understand there is an embedded forth version of this `` IC and I think the book "Embedded Forth for Control" by some people at `` Sandia Labs deals with just such a chip however the people who have `` purchased it seem put off by the technical detail and extensive source `` code listings. The book is _Embedded Controller Forth for the 8051_ by William I. Payne of Sandia National Laboratories. It describes a FIG-Forth system for the 8051 complete with a version of the Nautilus Systems Cross-compiler. I cannot vouch for the overwhelming nature of the technical detail, but it is complete. Cross-compilers are daunting at first look, but unless you have an 8051 system with an interactive Forth with which you can incrementally develop your application and a RAM configuration that allows it, you have little choice but to cross-compile it. (I _think_ the source code is available on disc from Academic Press, or from Bill Payne.) Good luck! -- David C. Petty | dcp@world.std.com | ...!{uunet,bu.edu}!world!dcp /\ POBox Two | CIS: 73607,1646 | BIX, Delphi, MCIMail: dcp / \ Cambridge, MA | `I thought I was wrong once, / \ 02140-0001 USA | but I realized I was mistaken.' /______\ * Origin: GEnie and the Forth Interest Group NET/Mail : The GrapeVine BBS 2.4 gigs (501) 753-8121 Dual Standard Date: 10-07-90 (13:43) Number: 1804 of 2665 To: SYSOP Refer#: NONE From: WILLIAM GILES Read: 10-08-90 (09:08) Subj: COMMENT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) I just got a copy of a new book called "Embedded Controller FORTH for the 8051 Family" by William H. Payne of Sandia National Laboratories, ISBN 0-12-547570-5, published by Academic Press. This book is about two thirds listings of the source code, which is declared to be in the public domain. The book contains a FORTH for the PC, a Metacompiler, an operating system for an 8051 target system and a terminal emulator to talk to the target system. It appears to be a system that was developed over a period of several years and is quite complex. There is very little in the way of the system and the reader is expected to get this information from the listings. The author says that source code and FORTH Encyclopedias for this system are available on disk from "participating hardware vendors", but does not give any names. It is also supposed to be posted on some bulletin boards, but, again, no names re given. Are you aware of this book or any one who has the disks or files available? When I realized the amountof time nedded to retype the listings would take, I thought that I would try find the files first. Any help that you might give would be appreciated. Bill (H)elp, End of Message Command? Date: 10-10-90 (06:37) Number: 1833 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY SMITH Read: (N/A) Subj: FORTH IN PRINT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) PORTED FROM UseNet => ------ From: rdt154k@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (mr n benci) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Message to Lance Collins. Keywords: Lance Collins Message-ID: <1990Oct8.235237.21707@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 8 Oct 90 23:52:37 GMT Organization: Caulfield Campus, Monash University, Melb., Australia. A quick message to Lance collins. I post it here as i have no access to Forthnet (sp?). In article <1826.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> you write: > > Date: 10-04-90 (20:44) Number: 3951 > To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: NONE > From: LANCE COLLINS Read: NO > Subj: 8051 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE > > Yesterday I received a copy of 'Embedded Controller Forth' by William > Payne (Acedemic Press). I have only glanced at it so far as there are > 527 pages of fairly fine print. Two thirds of the book are source > code appendices. So there is now a VERY comprehensive public domain > 8051 Forth. > > The book says on page xiv > "Disk copies of all the software included in this book and additional > FORTH documentation are available from participating 8051 family > hardware vendors." > > Can anyone out there convert this statement into a specific procedure > for obtaining the source on disk? > > Lance Hi, could you PLEASE send me details as to how to obtain the book. Either by mail or by phone. Muchos thanks in advance. We are FORTH starved here in Oz. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Nino Benci. * Confucious say * * Monash University, Caulfield Campus * 'Never stand alone against * * Physics Department * against ignorance' * * 900 Dandenong Rd, Caulfield East * * * VIC, 3145. Tel (03) 573 2355/2519 * * * Australia * * * email oz: rdt154k@monu6.cc.monash.oz.au * * email world: rdt154k%monu6.cc.monash.edu.au@uunet.uu.net * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Origin: GEnie and the Forth Interest Group NET/Mail : East Coast Forth Board -- McLean, VA -- 703-442-8695 Date: 11-19-90 (10:18) Number: 1986 of 2665 (Echo) To: JACK WOEHR Refer#: 1955 From: RAY DUNCAN Read: 11-23-90 (22:15) HAS REPLIES Subj: 8051 FORTH FOR LANCE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) >who has the executables and source for the Forth that the guy who >wrote BRYTE Forth and wrote that book about 8031/51 Forths said >would be around These are not the same guy, I don't think. Christopher Johnson of BRYTE wrote the really nice 8031/51 Forth, while Bill Payne of Sandia Labs wrote the book that included the 8031/51 Forth. Perhaps the two Forths are related indirectly but I don't think Johnson and Payne worked together on the book. NET/Mail : LMI Forth Board, Los Angeles, CA (213) 306-3530 Date: 11-23-90 (22:15) Number: 1994 of 2665 (Echo) To: RAY DUNCAN Refer#: 1986 From: SYSOP Read: NO Subj: 8051 FORTH FOR LANCE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) -> >who has the executables and source for the Forth that the guy who -> >wrote BRYTE Forth and wrote that book about 8031/51 Forths said -> >would be around -> These are not the same guy, I don't think. Christopher Johnson of -> BRYTE wrote the really nice 8031/51 Forth, while Bill Payne of Sandia -> Labs wrote the book that included the 8031/51 Forth. Perhaps the two -> Forths are related indirectly but I don't think Johnson and Payne -> worked together on the book. Aha ... now I don't know *anything* ! So who has the Forth? Where's the beef? Who fired first on Ft. Sumter? =jax= Date: 12-02-90 (06:31) Number: 2079 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY SMITH Read: (N/A) Subj: FINDING A FORTH FOR THE 8 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) PORTED FROM UseNet => ------ From: ritchie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (David Ritchie) Subject: Re: Finding a Forth for the 8051/8031 Message-ID: <16850007@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> Date: 27 Nov 90 00:33:32 GMT References: <2008.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID > These are not the same guy, I don't think. Christopher Johnson of BRYTE > wrote the really nice 8031/51 Forth, while Bill Payne of Sandia Labs > wrote the book that included the 8031/51 Forth. Perhaps the two Forths > are related indirectly but I don't think Johnson and Payne worked > together on the book. > From where is the Forth mentioned in the Payne book available? The book said "a major silicon vendor". Could anyone be more specific? -- Dave Ritchie ritchie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com * Origin: GEnie and the Forth Interest Group NET/Mail : The GrapeVine BBS 2.4 gigs (501) 753-8121 Dual Standard Date: 12-12-90 (21:15) Number: 2232 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DENNIS RUFFER Read: (N/A) Subj: FINDING A FORTH FOR THE 8 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) I just got a book in that might be interesting to those of you working on 8051 systems. It is: Embedded Controller FORTH For the 8051 Family William H. Payne 1990 Academic Press, Inc. ISBN 0-12-547570-5 It has an interesting table of contents (which I won't type in) and includes a complete nucleus for the 8051 and a PC version of Forth that you can type in from the hex listing (oh boy :-). The author has placed all of the code (it appears) in the public domain and much of it looks likes it originates from F83. They also do include source for the Nautilus Cross Compilers for those who have that system. Has anyone read this book? Is it worth while? Does the code work? Is the code available in electronic format? I obviously haven't read it yet, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling before I go looking for another round toit. DaR * Origin: GEnie and the Forth Interest Group NET/Mail : The GrapeVine BBS 2.4 gigs (501) 753-8121 Dual Standard Date: 12-28-90 (23:49) Number: 2410 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: BOB SCHEMMEL Read: HAS REPLIES Subj: 8051 & FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) The company I work for uses 8051's (87C51,87c52) for controlling robotic theater lighting equipment. We currently use assembly language and Basic. I am interested in experimenting with forth that can target this processor. I understand there is an embedded forth version of this IC and I think the book "Embedded Forth for Control" by some people at Sandia Labs deals with just such a chip however the people who have purchased it seem put off by the technical detail and extensive source code listings. I am curious if anyone has actually tried an embedded forth 8051 or barring that, has anyone used forth to target that chip with a metacompiler and/or native code compiler. I have LMI's PC/FORTH 3.2 and have not really learned it enough yet to use it at work but that is my objective, hence I would be curious if anyone has used LMI's 8051 metacompiler/code optimizer or such to improve the performance of there 8051 equipment. I would be especially curious about anyone who WAS using assembly language and or Basic and then tried forth for the 8051, since I would like to interest the engineering dept. here in the difference between these two software approaches. Anything in the way of first hand accounts of people who switched to forth for the 8051 would certainly carry alot of weight to interest the people here who are receptive but would like to see evidence of the difference. I don't need any convincing myself, I am merely looking for something to show the people at work. I would appreciate anyone's input. Bob Date: 01-12-91 (15:54) Number: 2549 of 2665 (Echo) To: JAX Refer#: NONE From: TOM SCHOTLAND Read: HAS REPLIES Subj: 8051 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) Hi! There have been a number of messages on this board, including some from me, about obtaining public domain 8051 Forth systems. A number of them mention a book by William Payne called "Embedded Controller Forth for the 8051 Family." Many praise the book; all complain that the code is not available. I have obtained it directly from Bill Payne, who has told me to feel free to upload to bulletin boards for general consumption. The trouble is, it's HUGE! I cannot afford to upload four disks worth of code. I would like to know if you want this on your board, and if so, can I submit it by mailing you copies of the disks ? Please leave me a mailing address if you want it. --Tom Date: 01-12-91 (17:57) Number: 2550 of 2665 (Echo) To: TOM SCHOTLAND Refer#: 2549 From: SYSOP Read: 01-15-91 (05:53) Subj: 8051 FORTH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) Tom -- Would be only too glad to have it! Mail to: RealTime Control & Forth Board 7100 W. 44th Ave. Suite #101 Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Your disks and postage will be returned to you. Thanx for the offer! =jax= Date: 01-22-91 (19:26) Number: 2651 of 2665 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: SYSOP Read: (N/A) Subj: W.H. PAYNE EMB CONT 4TH Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: FORTH (2) Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) The files from W. H. Payne's _Embedded Controller Forth for the 8051_ are now available for download from the RCFB. Msg#:29762 *GENERAL* 06/13/90 09:48:42 From: MARK DAMISH To: ALL Subj: NEW FORTH BOOK. I've seen some mention of FORTH for the 8031 here, and I think that I have a source that might not have been mentioned. _ BOOK: Embedded Controller FORTH for the 8051 Family. William H. PAYNE Academic Press 1-800-321-5068 (plastic OK) Avail: Aug 1990 576 pages $39.95(tentative)/ISBN: 0-12-547570-5 _ Quoting from the ad..... _ The purpose of this book is to present the technology required to develop hardware and software for embedded controller systems at a fraction of the cost of traditional methods. The author includes hardware schematics of 8051 family development systems, disk files containing source code of FORTH assemblers, compilers, dissem- blers, decompilers, operating systems, metacompilers, and editors. _ ...END QUOTE I hope that this book/disk is 'self contained'. I just can't stand shelling out $40 for a book, only to find out that additional $$$'s are required for machine readable code!!!!! MARK Msg#:33297 *GENERAL* 10/06/90 21:44:36 From: WILLIAM GILES To: BARTON MEEKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32633 (8031/51 FORTH WANTED) I just got a copy of a new book called "Embedded Controller FORTH For the 8051 Family", by William H. Payne of Sandia National Laboratories, ISBN 0- 12-547570-5, published by Academic Press. This book contains the source code listings of a FIG-FORTH System including a PC FORTH and a FORTH operating system for the 80C31. The book has a description of the hardware used and the steps necessary to generate the software from the listings. The listings are very extensive and take up about two thirds of the book. Very little instruction is included in the book; you are supposed to learn what the software does by reading the listings. The FORTH encyclopedias are not included in the book. The complete listings plus encyclopedias are supposed to be available on disk from "participating hardware vendors", but no names are mentioned. The software is declared to be in the public domain. . This appears to be a system developed by the author over several years. It does not look trivial. I would like to acquire the disks, but have made no attempt to locate them so far. I will probably try the Real Time FORTH Board and FORTH Dimensions first. If anyone knows where to get these disks, I would appreciate the information. . I hope that this is some help. . Bill Msg#:36795 *MAILBOX* 01/12/91 19:47:14 From: TOM SCHOTLAND To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 FORTH Hello. I have seen a number of messages on this board and others from people seeking a Forth forthe 8051. Severalof them mention a book by William Payne called "Embedded Controller Forth for the 8051 Family." The book contains complete code listings for an 8051 Forth, but nobody seems to know where to obtain the code in machine-readable form. I recently contacted the author, and he has sent me the entire system, with his permission to upload it to bulletin boards for general distribution. The problem is, the system is enormous. My phone bill will not withstand the uploading of four floppys (!?!). I would be very happy to mail you a copy, however, if you would like it on your board. Judging from the number of messages I've seen, it's very much a desired commodity. Incidentally, I also have a little known 4K 8051 Basic, that can run code using only the 8051's internal RAM. With a minor patch, it can address the top 128 bytes of an 8052, as well. It is actually more like a 3K Basic, as it contains a sample program (a card game simulation, would you believe). When you leave that out, you recover about 1K. The program is from the Intel INSITE library, and is actually on their BBS, but you can't get at it unless you already know it's there; it doesn't appear in the list of downloadable files. --Tom Schotland Msg#:36838 *MAILBOX* 01/14/91 08:48:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM SCHOTLAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36795 (8051 FORTH) By all means, I'd love to have copies of all that you listed. If you're willing to send floppies, I have no problem making them download ready and posting them here. Send anything you think is appropriate. Thanks.